Woodie kit

[dumpling]

    Just seen this link for the new Leech OK dinghy kit, boats came 1st and second at the recent worlds! Wood is back ! Does anyone think it might be the way to go for home build cheap BM's, or getting cnc files made up for fit out of a FRP hull, Claridge, Severn or BMBA.
Certainly be an economical way to get a down to weight competitive Hull. Leaves some big bucks for your rig.

Link www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/181459/The-return-of-the-woodie 

[Graham]

Woods never been out in Moths, with modern epoxies and paints the maintenance issues are addressed and the panel weights/stiffness arguably better than composites and easier to make .
My X moths use CNC produced bulkheads and jigs and this is certainly the way forward to produce a repeatable quality hull.
Moths like OKs were designed for home construction and as the OK article proves can still produce successful hull today beating the composites, a great story and hope we have some takers prepared to put in around 150 hours to build and finish a boat.
We hear of refurbished boats taking this long, which is why I built my first boat Gromit on a budget and podium finisher at its first Nationals and still going strong nearly 20 years later in original paint and varnish.(Need a makeover now ,like me.)
Great way to get a new boat if you can make the time.
Thanks for flagging this up.

[dumpling]

Dan Leech the designer in NZ, charges 700 NZ dollars for the cnc files, that includes jig and boat files plus 3 d instruction files, this is about £350 sterling.

If you want to build another boat from the same jig he charges 500 NZ dollars which is about £250 sterling. They are generating a lot of interest in the OK world, apparently you can build the jig and boat for under £600 sterling.

And a hull was constructed by two people over two weekends! ( Bare )

This very well thought out kit system could apply very easily to a BM, or even just for completing a professional hull.

Hope someone takes up the baton.

JH

[paultp]

I think a kit would be a great idea as the scarcity of second hand boats continues to restrict the class. There is interest in British Moths at the Yorkshire Ouse club, a couple of their members also sail at Ripon and have wondered if a BM would be the boat for their river club. Unfortunately there are few boats available for them to test the theory and nobody is going to buy a new one on the off chance.

I've been trying for the last month or so to get someone to go and get Jon Cooper's 786 but the distance and work involved is putting them off. If I had anywhere to work on it I'd get it myself, do it up and pass it on to someone at Yorkshire Ouse. I'd also like a go at a kit, but again lack of facilities would prevent this.

People still build Streakers from kits so I'm sure there would be a market at the right price.

[polyfiller]

Very interesting. We had success in the past (in terms of growth of the class) with the last available home build wood kit, the Meritlock ... although, sadly, their performance was poor, to say the least. This was partly due to the kit being designed for the old 150lb weight limit, and partially down to poor home build. However, even those built by pro's and down to the new weight limit did not lead the fleet (hull design not great) ... but a newly available. easier to build (properly) wood kit would have some merit. I like wood, always have, I've just been promoting the fibreglass boats recently to try and modernize the class image. A healthy balance of fast new (and cheap) wood plus fibreglass would be great to see ... and provided they aren't dog slow, would be a good entry option into the class.

[aquatinea]

Concerning hull shape, I've been toying with the idea of building a new one recently, even going to the extent of doing some drawings (from the measurement rules), and playing around with different hull shapes, within those limits. I've built/rebuilt a few OKs, (the hull shape rules use a similar system) so have some ideas of my own, but what is considered a 'fast' shape in a Moth?
I guess that a flatter section in the stern is desirable, along with a sharper (more vee'd) bow shape in section. But what about the keel line (rocker), deep or shallow? I know there will be plusses and minuses depending on sailing conditions, but (as in the OK's) there must be some 'golden rules'? Any advice would be helpful, Thanks.

[polyfiller]

Sharp entry, flat, wide - so minimum rocker, maximum width, flat as possible. Will be difficult to improve on the current fast hulls, and TBH, as long as it's not "the wrong shape" and down to weight, it should be OK, given a good rig. The advantage the latest JC's composites seem to have is the stiffness, and I'm not sure this could be replicated in wood.

[aquatinea]

Hi, Thanks for that.
Hi,

I'd agree that the panel stiffness looks like being a problem due the small amount of curvature allowed, so what thickness would you advise for the bottom, without running into excessive overall weight? I thought maybe, 6mm bottom, transom and sides, 4mm everything else, with stringers to stiffen the bottom panels. I did read somewhere here that some boats have 'double' thickness bottom panels in the cockpit - is that legal? if so how thick?

The other thing I noticed in drawing it out was that (within the tolerances) IF the keel line at the transom was kept 'high' (maximum from baseline, to flatten the vee at the transom), then the keel rocker does increase, a bit. Does that matter provided that the keel and chine lines are kept as straight as possible in the stern?

Cheers.

[GrahamSevern]

Aquatina
You are on the right lines with shape you will end up with similar lines Phil Morrison drew for me which has more rise of floor or depth in the center giving a tad more rocker.Rob Wilder who won champs in my Xmoth reckons slightly slower to pop onto a plane but just as quick once there and faster to windward and the light stuff,slightly different performance characteristics to Claridge but capable of winning again if well built and rigged.
Best panels to use are 5mm Robbins elite(Gaboon) for hull, double up floor in cockpit with either 4 or 5mm laid cross grain decks 4mm could use 3mm but a tad extra is worth while for stiffness.With full epoxy coating this should still come out at 44-45kg providing your filleting is neat and cedar is used for scantlings.
Good luck and crack on, they are easy to build just prepare well to pull the bow into shape that's the only tricky bit.
Kind Regards
Graham

[Aquatinea]

Thanks guys,
I'm still at the 'head scratching' stage right now, mostly to do with finding the time, but a winter project looks possible!
Once I've convinced the 'boss' (my lovely wife Marion), I'll report back on progress.
Thanks again, Bob.

[dumpling]

Graham
Can't you be persuaded to provide pre cut kit or sell cnc files for cutting out like the OK's have done???
The OK's royalties per boat built from one CNC file purchase is around £300 and the CNC kit file is about £700
Or even better for the class, a kit to fit out a BMBA hull. ( they look good shape and are certainly down to weight )
Cheers for now
JH

[GrahamSevern]

My mould was produced from 2d Cad which enabled the bulkheads and rockerline to be cut out,hull panels are fitted into the mould from patterns it is the investment into the mould and its construction that enables me to reliably and relatively quickly produce boats,so the best option for potential customers and me is to supply bare shell for completion,a full kit of parts would be twice as much time plus the writing of an instruction manual,too much investment for small demand.
Mirror kits are £1100 for wooden parts ,Streakers around £2300.So expect a bare hull to be somewhere in between.
If you want a cheap boat you have to start from scratch this is what the Moths and Oks were designed for and Aquatinea is wrestling with, builders need paying for their time and CNC owners need to recover their investment sadly our small volume puts up these costs.
Kind Regards
Graham

[dumpling]

Graham
Thank you for explaining matters. I appreciate your position and I in no one want to take anything away from boat builders especially those that work in wood.
I think there will always be a need for professional builders, it was suggested as an offering to those that want to have a go at building there own boat, with the current build off plan method they will not be able to produce a fair, stiff and light boat first time round because they will not have the skills of the professional. Whereas in the OK class the leech cnc files take the precision of 'cutting out' away from the diyer, set up the frame /mould and put the jigsaw together. ( words are easy )It is working for the OK class with some very competitive boats being built, however they will never be bueatyful works of art like X Moth etc
Cheers for now
Jeff H

[aquatinea]

I'd agree with Graham, even for an amateur the investment in a female 'mould' or male 'formers' is quite a large proportion of the build costs, in time and money.
It has to be robust enough to withstand the stresses involved in getting the curvatures. (It has been noted in the OK Class that the bow curvature of the latest kit hulls is less than the norm, so it looks like the kit hull shape had been designed specifically to be 'easy to build'). A full-ish bow in section in the OK is normally a desirable thing downwind......(but note that the guy who won the OK Worlds did not win because he was sailing a wooden boat. In fact the wood kit boats generally turn out a bit heavy (no correctors).....
Personally I prefer to use a set of male formers ('cause I like to see that the shape is what I want - and check measure it, to make sure it's legal!), which is not so easy to do in a female mould.
The BMBA hull is a great way for the Class to encourage amateur builds (I'm surprised more Classes don't do that). I'd advise anyone to do it that way, as decks are a lot easier to do than hulls, and only light 'bracing' around the hull is needed to keep the 'legal' shape, while adding the decking, which helps keep overall costs down.
Bob.