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Post by memoryman on Jul 30, 2013 18:48:57 GMT
As an introduction, I guess I'm a 'born again' mothist. I suppose I would also add that I think I'm a couple of years older than the boat and I believe she was built by Bossoms in the early fifties. I think I owned my last Moth in about 1970. She has been unused for the last 20 years, the first fifteen being under cover. I came across the previous owners 'for sale' advert by accident. She had been advertised for over a year and I was surprised that my email had a positive response. To cut a long story short I paid the owner for the trailer and he gave me the boat! Water had damaged the decks which were warped and delaminating, otherwise she looked reasonable. The first job was remove the decks. With the decks removed it was easy to check the hull and all looked sound. The centre-board case also showed no sign of movement. So far so good! Having removed the decks I now need to clean up the old joints - many of the cross members are loose. I would also welcome any views on glues. The last time I built a boat Cascamite was all the rage. Now it seems to be epoxy which I know absolutely nothing about. Anyway, what are the pros and cons. Is it worth using epoxy on an old boat? Pictures and notes to follow as the project continues.
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Post by ianstuart on Jul 31, 2013 8:19:31 GMT
Welcome back to the class. Your efforts so far look real good. Several years ago I refurbished BM 361. I used latest epoxy for all joints & finishing. The results were tremendous . Good luck with this project. Look forward to seeing the finished job. Ian Haywood BM 871
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Post by abby on Jul 31, 2013 18:06:42 GMT
Welcome back to Mothing - I hope you have happy memories! You might try messaging Pegasus (who may be on holiday at the moment) as I think he did much the same thing with Bertie.
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Post by Overoptimistix on Aug 1, 2013 12:58:44 GMT
While rebuilding 568 (yes it's still not finished) I have used foaming polyurethane glues, and epoxy. The foaming ones are good for filling gaps if the surfaces being joined are uneven.
I've used epoxy for sticking down glass fibre mat and tape.
Enjoy.
dan
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Post by memoryman on Aug 2, 2013 16:05:51 GMT
Thanks for the encouraging words and helpful comments. I was reading on the forum the problems people were having with centreboards and how a piece of garden hose and two screws would do the trick. I thought people may be interested in the clamping device I've just removed from 326. Its brass and I'm sure the pictures show how the clamp should work. Its position in the casing can be seen in the previous photo. The rubbers appear to be door stops and the rubber on the adjuster side had an old half-penny dated 1947 as a backing washer. Whatever happened to £sd? As a matter of interest all the fittings - except the SS rudder pintles - are brass. Reminds me - must get SWMBO some brasso and a cloth!
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Post by Overoptimistix on Aug 6, 2013 12:16:53 GMT
That sounds like what I have on 568 (I can't see the pictures. I replaced the washers with slices cut off a demi-jon rubber cork. Only time will tell how sucessful it will be.
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Post by memoryman on Aug 6, 2013 18:08:55 GMT
I'm sorry you can't see the pictures. I'm new to all this forum thingy and wondered if I had managed to post the pictures correctly. Have I done something wrong? Should I re-size them?
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Post by Overoptimistix on Aug 6, 2013 21:57:58 GMT
Pictures are fine - I can't always see them at work. I've just had a look now, and the parts certainly polish up nicely. Look similar to what I have here.
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Post by memoryman on Aug 8, 2013 21:28:29 GMT
The original foredeck was a single piece of ply. It therefore didn't matter that there were two centre stringers from the bow to c/board case on either side of the king post and c/board. However, having decided to have a two piece foredeck, I have had to infill the two stringers so I have something to fix the centre edge of the ply sheets too. All will become clear by looking at the previous picture of the boat without decks. I have been using West's 6/10 adhesive. I had imagined it would be like Araldite - one amber compound and one milky white compound. The amber compound is fine but the milky white compound has flakes of white in it, between 1 and 2mm in diameter. They don't disappear when the compounds are mixed and stirred. The epoxy seems to go off OK but is this normal? I don't want all the joints to fail 12 months down the line!! Anyone have any ideas. Should I send it back or is it safe to use?
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Post by memoryman on Aug 9, 2013 11:33:04 GMT
The two stringers from the c/board case to the bow have had mahogany strips inserted to give me a base for the edges of the two part deck I intend to fit. The full width of the deck is 4' 4" which is a shame as the ply sheets are 4'. I appreciate that it's possible to get larger sheets but things tend to get expensive as one moves away from the norm. The fore decks are 5' long, the side decks are 4' and the rear deck is 2' so I think I need two sheets of ply. The side and rear decks will come from one sheet which will leave the other sheet for the foredecks. The next decision is what ply to use? Robbins do an 'all round' ply for £34/sheet. It's then a big step to their 'Elite' range, the Super Elite coming in at £98. The Tiger Elite(Stripey /Sapele) is £101 and is described as being 'lightweight and designed for dinghy/canoe decks'. Sorry but I've always wanted stripey decks so logic goes out the window.
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Post by godfrey on Aug 9, 2013 16:10:37 GMT
Check the weight of the Elite plus etc. the magogany facing both sides is heavy which is not what you want with a Moth. The Tiger stripe is gaboon based and quite a lot lighter. You have a big deck area on a BM! I'm not familiar with the glue you describe;- I have used SP with great success but am currently working with Blue Gee epoxy which is sold in managable sized packs for about £16. Depends how much work you are going to do, whether to buy a larger amount. John Colgate kept up his BMBA subs as a Hunts SC member for many years although we never met him.... She looks like the classic Bossoms style like Twit, so should go well in light stuff, espcially if you can get the weight down to something realistic. Getting rid of the brass will help in a cost-effective way. Try replacing the brass keelband with aluminium salvaged from the bone-yard. Thats a kilo saved straight away.
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Post by memoryman on Aug 10, 2013 11:45:52 GMT
You're right Godfrey. I checked and the cheapest board, the Elite, is 5-6kg, the Super Elite is 7-8kg and the Super Elite Plus is 8-9kg. The Sapele or Tiger Elite is 6kg so quite a difference between this and the Super Elites.
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Post by memoryman on Aug 22, 2013 12:44:54 GMT
I thought the hard work was taking the decks off but sanding the old varnish made deck removal a piece of cake! However, the first coat of resin went on this morning and I must admit it's nice to be putting things together rather than stripping down. I've replaced the four formers under the side decking as the old ones had broken in the past and been repaired. I replaced them with 9mm instead of 6mm not only because of my ample proportions but they have the length ways formers screwed sideways into the veneers which is not ideal. The olds one lasted 60 years so perhaps I shouldn't worry! I spoke to Bossom's and they were kind enough to go through their old stock and find me a nameplate. Nice helpful people. Also went to Robbins to look at wood and they were also a happy, helpful team. They give a discount on Saturday mornings as well.
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Post by memoryman on Aug 26, 2013 19:13:37 GMT
Went to Robbins on Saturday and bought two sheets of their Tiger Elite Marine ply - the one with the Sapele stripes. It's 4mm and is really good. If you lay the sheet on the ground and walk around it, the patterns change - wierd! I'm working on the basis that she has brought pleasure to many people over the last 60 years so deserves a treat. I must admit the decks do look good. As they say, 'a thing of beauty is a joy forever'. The inside of the hull has had three coats of West's epoxy and is also looking good. A 120grm mixture of 5:1, with the slow hardener, gives a working time of 30 minutes and will cover half the hull. I've rubbed down in between coats with 80 grit sandpaper - as recommended in the instructions - and it's easy to see that the surface is flattening out with each coat. They advise finishing with varnish to keep the UV from damaging the epoxy but as the interior of the hull is unlikely to get any sunlight should I simply leave the epoxy coat as is? Tomorrow means another trip to Robbins as I bought the wrong filler for the epoxy - should be 406 not 407 for joining the decks to the hull. Also want to get some white wood as I want to put a white line in the front deck from the centre board slot to the forestay which means splitting the front deck into two halves. But I want to match it with a white wood line around the gunwhales(?).
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Post by godfrey on Aug 27, 2013 16:35:08 GMT
Looks like you could be better off adding the side bits and forgetting about the contrasting centreline. Classes with a lot of deck camber all make those little plywood side extensions to achieve the 4ft plus board width and avoid a stressed join along the centreline which is awkward to hold down while the glue sets. Looking good so far though. Will you be able to get your sycamore/mahogany gunwales from Robbins?
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