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Post by New Boy on Feb 23, 2010 11:28:51 GMT
Hi All I have been looking for some time as most of you know at putting together a price list for new build Boats, and while doing that and from the problems I had getting myself a new boat last year I have come to the conclusion that it would be beneficial to the class to have a deck mould made for the B.M.B.A. Hull. My reasons for this are as follows:There does seem to be a demand for new boats but at this point we are as a class unable to offer certain types of boats and are loosing potential new members to other classes. 1. It would make it easier to buy a complete British Moth in a variety of styles. 2. The B.M.B.A hull is not selling well at present as a lot of work is required to get to a finished boat from the bare Hull. 3. Other suppliers of the British Moth have made it clear what they are happy to build and we could fill a gap in the market without stepping on their toes. At present we have a few Boat builders on board who if asked will make a Decked Moth for us. 1. Godfrey Clarke will build an all wood deep cockpit boat. 2. Jeremy and Graham are now building all wood deep cockpit boats with rolled decks. 3. John Claridge will once ready, which will be a little while yet, make an all fiberglass self drainer. This leaves a gap for a deep cockpit all glass boat which does seem to be wanted by people trying to join the class. Having a Deck mould made for the B.M.B.A Hull seems to me to be the best way to fill this gap. It is my intension to raise this as a Question at the A.G.M and if possible to take a vote on the matter.As always this is just my opinion and I would like to know what the rest of you think? New Boy
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Post by the black pig on Feb 23, 2010 14:50:57 GMT
i think this a great idea.
would be very interested in getting a moth of this type, if you can get the idea off the ground.
good luck.
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Post by enigma on Feb 23, 2010 15:42:30 GMT
My Zig Zag no 821is a BMBA with a glass rolled deck,would that mould not be any good? Or is too old hat!
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Post by casablanca on Feb 23, 2010 21:32:46 GMT
Zigzag is from the old jep/bmba mould which got destroyed in a fire some years ago which is why there are no new one like it around.
If I hadn't already got Fli bi nite i would be interested in the idea of a glass deck on the bmba hull, it sounds a good idea for people like me who really don't do paint & varnish.
I had a go in Jeremy's self drainer and found it too shallow for me, so an all plastic deep-cockpit boat would definitely have appeal for me.
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Post by bertfatal on Feb 24, 2010 9:47:53 GMT
I think it would be a great idea, I was hoping to get a Claridge all plastic deep cockpit boat but as Mark has already mentioned John Claridge is only planning to build self-drainers. A deep cockpit deck for the BMBA hull would, I am sure, increase the number of sales of the BMBA hull. I assume the class makes some profit on the BMBA hulls and would also make money on the decks? How expensive is it to get a mould made, and how quickly can it be done as I am in the market now?
Richard.
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Post by moth868 on Feb 24, 2010 10:07:51 GMT
Looks like investing in a good Skinner deep cockpit is the way to go.
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Post by oldgreyfox on Feb 24, 2010 12:06:42 GMT
No longer a Moth sailor,but someone who has for a number of years been in close contact with Brian Skinner. He has not had an enquiry for a new boat for at least 18 months and has now "mothballed"(excuse the pun) his moulds. His selling price of £3200 for a complete boat on a well made galvanised, gunwhale hung lauching trolley was very, very reasonable and I cannot see how a complete BMBA hull/deck boat can be built at anywhere near this price. The purchase of a new deck mould should be looked at very carefully as I am sure that the BMBA's expenditure on the BMBA hull far outweighs the income received from building fees, perhaps the treasurer could enlighten the Membership on this matter. OGF
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Post by ianedwards on Feb 24, 2010 13:29:15 GMT
Re the point that has been made by the Old Grey Fox. The association is well out of pocket in respect of recovering the costs associated with the costs associated with the development of the BMBA hull. I will post the actual outlay and recovery to date on the site later. I would however say that is it not in the interest of the BMBA to help with the development of the boat. many other classes have their own moulds, Expenditure on the hull or even at some time in the future a deep cockpit deck moulding should therefore be seen as the responsibility of the class. I am still strongly of the opinion that manywhen they wish to buy a boat they want it there and then not have to wait weeks. Is that some of the reason for the success of the Laser and RS classes and possibly the significant growth of the Straker class in recent years Ian E Treasurer
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Post by ianedwards on Feb 24, 2010 13:32:45 GMT
Must improve my typing skills
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Post by the black pig on Feb 24, 2010 13:46:12 GMT
No longer a Moth sailor,but someone who has for a number of years been in close contact with Brian Skinner. He has not had an enquiry for a new boat for at least 18 months and has now "mothballed"(excuse the pun) his moulds. His selling price of £3200 for a complete boat on a well made galvanised, gunwhale hung lauching trolley was very, very reasonable and I cannot see how a complete BMBA hull/deck boat can be built at anywhere near this price. The purchase of a new deck mould should be looked at very carefully as I am sure that the BMBA's expenditure on the BMBA hull far outweighs the income received from building fees, perhaps the treasurer could enlighten the Membership on this matter. OGF could not the class look into buying these moulds.
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Post by New Boy on Feb 24, 2010 16:41:21 GMT
Hi Good to see interest in this topic. As a reply to the Ex Moth owner. I would like to say it's not all about money! The British Moth Association is a non profit making organization and it's aim is to provide longevity of the class as much as anything else. The returns have been low as the profit taken is low to keep the cost of the Hull down. Of course a cost study would need to be carried out. Boats need to be available in the style and materials that people want. Your views have been noted and I am sure will add to an interesting debate at the A.G.M. Hope to see you there if you have a Moth again by then. I have spoken at great length to Brian Skinner over the last 6 months and have asked him many times if he is willing to build a deep cockpit Moth. His reply varies from I might do to definitely not. He has been asked by someone recently and they were told not at the moment. It is no secret that at this time Brian for his own reasons is not happy with the way the class is going in terms of boat design. It is for this reason that he is no longer building Moths. I have only added this to clear up a long standing rumor and I can assure you this came directly from him to me. The moulds are his to do with as he pleases. "The Moulds are are not for sale at this time". This is a direct quote from him to me only three weeks ago. Brian Skinner has done great work for the British Moth Fleet in the past and built many boats. He is due many thanks for his efforts in the past and I think it is a real shame his boats are not available at this time but we must fill the gap as we desperately need to make this type of boat available. I hope Brian goes back to building the British Moth again soon! It is my opinion as I said in an earlier post that for the class to grow boats must be available to purchase in the style they are wanted. Keep the comments coming New Boy
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Post by colin on Feb 24, 2010 18:31:16 GMT
At the time the decision was made that the BMBA fund its own mould it, should be remembered that:
1. There was no one other than Brian building Moths and these were the GRP shallow cockpit design that not everybody wanted.
2. Brian’s boats were to all intent built and sold on a ‘at cost basis’, not a commercial rate.
3. Godfrey Clark was rebuilding his workshop with no guarantee that he would build Moths.
4. The failure of new boats coming through locked up the second hand market.
5. There was no rush of potential new builders. Tim Hogan spent a lot of time trying to find them.
It was beholden upon the Committee to make a decision to protect the class. In retrospect was this the best decision? If Brian had still offered wooden boats or a deep cockpit GRP boat then I would suggest that the Committee would not have made the decision it did.
Colin
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Post by enigma on Feb 24, 2010 20:26:44 GMT
I have a vague recollection that Charlie Reeves had a mould made out of his 370 Inertia to make the Hibbert boats that became Salterns.If it is a benefit I am quite ok for the BMBA to take my boat apart to get a deck mould. Robin
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Post by New Boy on May 4, 2010 7:47:25 GMT
Hi The A.G.M is not far off so I think it is time to get serious about what new developments are put forward for a vote. As you have read above I intend to ask for a vote on making a Deck mould for the B.M.B.A hull. I do understand this will involve quite a bit of work. I will do my best to get a price for the work which I would like the B.M.B.A Association to pay for. I will also try to get a price for a completed decked hull to give everyone an Idea of what I am working towards. More and more people are asking me about the project and showing an interest in an all Fiberglass boat. I still believe that sales would increase if we could have a n Association hull decked and ready for purchase. The cost to the Association would be recovered on sale of the boat. Because of this I will also be asking for a vote for the Association to keep a Decked hull in stock. If the Fiberglass deck mould is not passed then I will request that a hull decked in wood is held in stock. I will be suggesting that the lay out should be of a long fordeck deep cockpit design. The Association is a non profit organization and it's job as I understand it is to promote and support the class in every way it can. I believe this would go a long way to achieving that. I believe many people look at our boats and because of the time delay and difficulty of purchase, pass us by. We need to resolve this problem and help the class to grow. The sale of new boats as in any class is crucial as it will release second hand boats which are desperately needed. Please as always post your comments here. New Boy
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Post by the black pig on May 4, 2010 8:34:19 GMT
still think this is a great idea.
will be at the a.g.m to give this idea my backing.
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