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Post by Olly758 on Jul 29, 2008 15:24:40 GMT
Hi all, Does anyone have any reccomendations or advice on re-painting and re-varnishing? Any reccomendations on which paint/varnish products are best? Also any tips on how best to re-paint/re-varnish? Olly S  |
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Post by BMBA Admin on Jul 29, 2008 15:55:57 GMT
Two-pack varnish is a bit of a nightmare to deal with for a newbie like me and a bit on the pricey side, but seems bomb-proof now it's on the boat. We put an awful lot of work into sanding the deck completely back and preparing her when we re-varnished Atlantic last winter though. Once the wood was prepared, we used International UCP primer and three or four coats of two pack Perfection. Would have been much easier if we'd had a warmer workshop and more flexible hours, but we were working on both borrowed space and time  The last coat in particular wasn't great (the hardener had started to go past its time, I think). If I had the budget and enthusiasm, I'd cut it back and reapply another coat now the weather's warmer. But as it is, she's presentable as she stands and the finish is standing up well enough to my habitual abuse ;D What are you up to? Just patching something up? Or grander intentions? |
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Post by BMBA Admin on Jul 29, 2008 16:25:44 GMT
Pictures of the last winter's work on Atlantic's re-varnish can been seen on Facebook here. My secret weapon was definately Dad! |
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Post by Olly758 on Jul 29, 2008 17:03:32 GMT
Bill,
Cheers for that. The job on Atlantic looks cracking.
I'm just wanting to re-do it as it appears in patches to have worn through and while the weather is good it seems like the ideal time. Especially before it turns cold.
When you referred to "sanding and preparing", what other preparation were you reffering to?
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Post by scruff871 on Jul 30, 2008 8:12:10 GMT
Hi Olly
Adding to the recent experiences of our esteemed web-master .....
These are some guidelines,based on my experiene, for using One-Pot Polyureathane type varnishes such as Intl Goldspar and Epifanes.
Goes without saying that if you are stripping right back to bare wood that the surface should be dry and before varnishing wipe over with White Spirit and wipe off.
Let evaporate and then varnish immediately...thin down the first couple of coats if you wish.
You can put on three coats in quick sucession if the coat before has dried without rubbing down in between coat applications.
After three coats let fully dry 36-48 hours and then lightly rub down with 280 wet/dry paper.
Wash off thoroughly with water and then White Spirit and when dry apply another coat.
Repeat after allowing to dry and apply another coat.
I suggest a minimum of 5 coats.
Important after the final coat to let the varnish fully harden...leaving it a week would be good before all the fittings are re-secured.Re fasten these with screws dipped in Varnish or squirt some clear silicone in the screw-holes.
Int Goldspar is a fantastic Varnish as is Epifanes but in the warm weather you will have to work quickly and NOT go back over what you have just varnished[to try to remove brush marks for example]it will be too late....aim to get a good finish as you go and use light diagonal stokes to remove brush marks and even out the Varnish you have put on.
Without doubt other than the SP Systems that are available the two-pack finishes are the best when bare or virgin wood is to be protected/finished.It is extremely durable and very hard when fully cured.We have used some Perfection on Laura,s boat [700 ]that we believe to be almost 30 years old and it wqs still good and went off very well.
The beauty of two-pack finishes is that you can over-coat with other products and still retain the durability of the initial coting/protection underneath.
BUT never try to use two-pack on top of anything else !!!
Good Luck....will look forward to seeing the results !
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Post by BMBA Admin on Jul 30, 2008 8:39:33 GMT
Removed the fittings from the boat (in hind-sight should also have removed the centre-board), then once the old varnish was gone used increasingly finer grits of sand paper to get the wood as smooth as possible - being very careful not to go through the laminate. Once that was done, cleaned the wood with thinners, then put the UCP primer on. The thinners was International No. 9, I think (as directed by the two-pack Pefection I was intending to use). The primer perhaps wasn't absolutely necessary, but we had it so used it anyway. Then put the first coat of two-pack on, let it harden (the timings are on the tin and are both tempreture dependent and very particular) then cut it back by hand with fine grit paper to key it for the next coat. Put the next coat on. Let it harden, cut it back. Then the next, let it harden, cut it back. Then the last (and all that was left in the tin at this point), again let it harden.... Went to check on her the next morning (this is the point where the coat is getting very tacky but isn't yet set) and a rather large moth had decided overnight to expire, glued to her foredeck in a malicious attempt to ruin her finish  Things to watch for. Two pack runs like buggery. Got to be very careful to lay just enough to cover and not enough to drip or it's a swine to cut back for the next coat. Brush marks. Are a pain. Best coped with by laying the varnish on with two lateral strokes up and down, then two cross strokes to smooth it. Roger (aka Scruff) might be able to describe the method he showed me a little better maybe? Light. It was very difficult, working under a halogen flood light, to spot whether the varnish was going on smoothly, and once we were into the second and subsequent coats, whether we'd missed bits. Brushes. Do NOT scrimp on the quality of your brushes. Spotting and removing loose hairs from the finish before it hardens off, or having to sand them out when missed -- this was the bane of my life. Get the best brushes you can afford. And still be very careful to check for stray hairs in your work! Finally. With two pack, DO NOT smell the hardener. The big tin of base stuff is fairly innocuous. This leads the stupid into a false sense of security, so when the little bitsy tin says "keep away from nose" they think to themselves "Bah, they can't possibly be serious". Which subsequently leads to serious brain burn and general hilarity on the part of any spectators. The same applies to the epoxy used to fix broken centre-boards, now I think of it. Seriously, DON'T do it. Think of the little tin as a big red button that says " DON'T PUSH ME" but unlike every other big red button in the world, this one really means it! |
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Post by Olly758 on Jul 30, 2008 10:55:08 GMT
Thanks for all the advice- being a complete novice/newbie to this side of sailing I need all the help I can get!
Roger- You said above that I shouldn't use 2 pack on top of anything else, however yesterday when I was looking at the Data Sheet for the Perfection varnish that Bill suggested, it suggested that it could be done. I'm aware that experience is often better than a 'data sheet' but what is the likely outcome of using 2 pack on top of previous coats?
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Post by Olly758 on Jul 30, 2008 11:14:47 GMT
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Post by Pie-eyed on Jul 30, 2008 11:32:13 GMT
Hi Olly, It just wont stick! Then cures if you're lucky and peels off like sunburnt skin... YUCK!! This is the bit from your link which is important... Compatibility/Substrates Perfection Varnish is not compatible with Teak, Iroko and other oily wood types. Will crack on carvel and clinker/lapstrake hulls. Do not use Perfection Varnish on flexible constructions. [glow=red,2,300]It should not be used over any one pack products. [/glow] When it says about using over previously varnished wood it's refering to previously 2 packed.... a bit misleading if you don't read on to the compatability paragraph. Laura (Mrs Scruff)  |
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Post by Olly758 on Jul 30, 2008 14:12:33 GMT
Thanks Laura. The last thing I need is to have to do it all over again!
I will give it a go when I have some time off in a couple of weeks and I'll post some pictures up!
Olly
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Post by Olly758 on Aug 4, 2008 16:41:05 GMT
Roger,
Probably a very daft question but as I say I really am a complete novice...
With regard to the wet/dry paper, where you have said above that I should use it, should I use it wet or dry?
Olly
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Post by Pie-eyed on Aug 5, 2008 5:46:28 GMT
Olly, not such a daft question, use warm water with a spot of fairy liquid, fold the paper into 4" squares
(ish) and use a circular action.
Wipe off when finished, rinse well, allow to dry then clean with white spirit before varnishing.
You will be surprised how good a surface you can acheive by using finer and finer grades of paper.
Roger
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Post by Olly758 on Aug 7, 2008 18:09:58 GMT
First coat of varnish on!
A lot of sanding and first coat now on.....
Seconds before the rain!
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Post by Olly758 on Aug 8, 2008 10:44:30 GMT
First coat looked good. Cut back and now the 2nd is on! Not sure it will look as godd as the 1st but we will see.
Bill,
I see what you mean about not being able to tell where you have done or not! Its a nightmare!
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Post by scruff871 on Aug 8, 2008 11:50:04 GMT
Olly
We are with you on this task....
What are you using ?
Are you varnishing outside ?...not good unless you live in Arizona ?
I used to varnish Fireballs in my lounge and recently we have had Moths in our Hallway to patch up gel-coat damage ...love your boat !!!
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