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Post by paultp on Aug 23, 2011 21:52:44 GMT
Long chat on the phone to Godfrey this evening, much appreciated. Not going to remove the cockpit floor now, going to strengthen the floor.
Not knowing really how the boat was put together is a bit of a hindrance really. Seeing as how 784 doesn't seem to really have a frame as such, if I took the floor off it would more than likely quickly become out of shape.
So the words of wisdom are: remove all the crap from the cockpit floor; fit a second floor (nice and tight); repair any remaining bits of hull under the nice new second floor. Easier (and quicker) said than done I imagine.
I'll be replacing that crap bailer whilst I'm at it too!
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Post by paultp on Sept 2, 2011 8:11:35 GMT
Right, I've got the boat back to the garage and stripped it down. I'm going to document the process on my blog as a sort of "watch me cock this up" thread. So if you want to give any advice at any stage (preferably not with hindsight - I'm already gifted with that), please drop me a line. Cheers Paul
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Post by Fatboysfly on Sept 2, 2011 8:40:32 GMT
Paul I am in a similar position / stage, I have cut my templates out of 4mm hardboard a this weekend should be fitting the new floors.I am going to drill out 6.0mm holes through the boat at about 6 inch centres, prop/support the bottom of the hull and then glue up with some weights to get a nice tight air gap free adhesion ( in theory ) The holes in the bottom give the excess glue somewhere to run and if you countersink the under side it will give you some resin rivets to help the structural integrity. This idea came from a chat I had with Graham Pope ( thank you Graham for the chat and advise ) I have also made the templates for the front mast support /stiffening and they will be going in aswell. ( what a stink to get that old tape and glue off ) Also brought some scales to weigh my boat as things progress to try and keep the weight down. I have taken some photos as things progress. Another idea for getting nice neat fillets, I am using cartridge gun tubes to apply the bead of resin, mask up either side, and then go for it with the ply profile moulder I made. Good luck Paul, can't wait to see your blog great Idea. Oh and another thing I really must join the association, are the old forms still relevant? JH
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Post by paultp on Sept 2, 2011 11:07:17 GMT
Hi JH, Thanks very much for the resin rivet tip, that is a really good idea. Can you explain how you made your templates please? I was going to make some out of card but hardboard seems a better idea as it will be the same thickness as the ply. Also, where can you get empty cartridge gun tubes? I presume these are the things that normally come full of mastic/filler or something but I didn't know you get empty ones. Given the layout of my cockpit, I think I'm going to have to use separate pieces of ply to get round the knees coming out from the centreboard case as they extend almost to the side tanks (see pic). I was thinking of using 2 each side and then a single piece at the back with a cut out to show the number in the hog. I might be able to overlap them where the knees are but there is only about an inch between the end of the knees and the side tanks. I'm a bit worried that the joints inside the side tanks have failed and I may have to put a hatch each side in order to sort them out. Time will tell. I was advised to put battens under the hull and screw through the new ply into the battens to ensure a tight fit, filling the holes afterwards, then covering the filler with some sort of non-slip tape.. Someone else also advised me to put a bit of hardboard under the screw heads so they don't bite into the ply. Cheers Paul P.S. The form is still valid, the amounts are correct as is the address to send it to. Attachments:
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Post by Overoptimistix on Sept 2, 2011 11:50:33 GMT
On my moth (568 - hopefully back soon) there are wooden stringers inside the cockpit. approx 3/4" half round. That may be an easier way to go without the problems of double thickness ply.
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Post by Fatboysfly on Sept 2, 2011 12:14:18 GMT
Paul, I think your job might be easier if you remove the knees and then put new ones on top of the double floor. Then you can do the job in 2 halves. I made my templates by laying sheet of cardboard measured and cut to the largest perfect rectangle I could get, taped it to the floor, then laid rectangular strip along the side tank edge, with a block of wood and a pencil follow the profile of the Tank side marked out the profile of the side tank, cut the profile, lay it on top of your large rectangle until it butts up to the tank and tape in place, repeat with centreboard case and centre line of the boat. Then take your cardboard off and use it to cut template in hardboard, locate and sand down to snug fit, then should be confident to mark out on your ply and cut ( simple's not ) I didn't want to screw through on my new floor because I want a varnish finish, but if I was painting it then the screw through would do the job. I get my empty cartridges from a firm that specialises in epoxy repairs, I am picking up a dozen on Monday, I could probably get you some and post on to you, they include the plunger and nozzle and fit standard skeleton gun. If you pm me with your details, be more than happy to sort some out for you. The stringers do work but I don't think they will give as much stiffness as a double floor,which has proven very popular with the Solo's, plus you don't get the trip hazard that you get with stringers. Jeff H
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Post by paultp on Sept 2, 2011 13:33:07 GMT
Hi JH, Thanks, thats really helpful. Remove the knees! I'll have to think about that but actually you may be right. @overoptimistix - I think the stringers would provide strength to a good floor but I'm sure I'm going to have to cut a couple of bits out so the double floor will provide extra stiffness, better strength and something to bond the hull repairs to. I'll cut the bits out and prepare the edges, then fit the second floor before turning over and finishing the hull repairs. Cheers Paul
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Post by paultp on Sept 14, 2011 7:58:58 GMT
This job has been made slightly more difficult by the apparent disappearance of Brown tin nitromors varnish remover from the planet.
The "all purpose" stuff in the green tin is useless!
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Post by Overoptimistix on Sept 14, 2011 11:37:29 GMT
You could try using a hot air stripper. It will lift polyester resin (and very useful for it too).
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Post by paultp on Sept 14, 2011 14:49:17 GMT
I think that is what I'm going to try, trouble is I have no power in my garage (council) so I'm going to have to bring the boat round to the alley at the rear of my house and run an extension out.
I'll have to do the job on Saturday so I can get it all done at one go.
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Post by paultp on Sept 17, 2011 15:44:08 GMT
I'm all set to start making the templates for the floor now but have a question:
Is it OK to cover up the boat number that is carved in the centreline of the boat?
Don't want to fall foul of any class rules.
Ta Paul
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Post by Ian Haywood on Sept 25, 2011 19:47:04 GMT
Paul
The identification number can be cut or indelibly marked on the hog piece, transom or mainbeam in a visible position. This info has been taken from the class rules effective Aug 2000. I believe this is still valid.
Good luck with your project.
Ian Haywood
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Post by paultp on Sept 26, 2011 10:49:28 GMT
Thanks Ian, Can Somebody explain (in words of one syllable preferably) what (and where) the hog and mainbeam are please? I'm afraid I'm not over fluent in dinghy speak. Attached (hopefully) is a pic showing where the number is now (back of c/b case) but I'm going to cover this with the new floor. What is this bit called? Thanks Paul Attachments:
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Post by godfrey on Sept 27, 2011 15:20:29 GMT
You havnt got a main beam in 784 so ignore that bit....
The hog is the spine, as visible from inside the boat, onto which the planks would traditionally have been glued and screwed from below. You havnt got one of those either!
However, most frameless hulls have some kind of bridging strip (butt strap) along the centreline to cover the join. Rather small, but looks like a hog and you would normally expect to find the i/d number carved or more commonly chain-drilled in this position. (The rules say 1" high letters). This is always checked at initial measurement. G
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Post by paultp on Sept 27, 2011 21:07:57 GMT
Thanks Godfrey, much appreciated as always.
I think I might transfer the number to the transom and keep the photographic evidence of the original number.
Cheers Paul
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