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Post by New Boy on Apr 12, 2010 8:17:35 GMT
Good news that she is not fire wood just yet. keep the reports coming in. New Boy
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Post by paultp on May 14, 2010 10:26:56 GMT
Still exasperated about 784.
The hull needs a repair that I don't have the knowledge to carry out and the local boat repair man keeps putting me off. I don't think he plans his work too well and hear stories of boats going to him and not returning for several months!
The hull needs a large piece in the cockpit cutting out and replacing. Or perhaps a partial/full re-hull might be needed.
Would anyone out there like to either
a) tell me (in language an idiot can understand) how to go about repairing the boat.
b) give me a quote for doing the repair and/or re-hulling the boat.
It is no longer a priority to get it back on the water as I have bought a plastic streaker (which I'm enjoying sailing) but I would like to get it done this summer if possible.
I don't want to sell 784 as I have an emotional attachment to it, but I do want to be able to sail it again.
Any takers?
Cheers Paul
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Post by Overoptimistix on May 14, 2010 11:58:17 GMT
Under the cockpit is good as then you have access to both sides of the repair.
First, make sure that you get proper marine ply and waterproof glues. Tell your supplier what you want it for. You will probably be offered "exterior" ply which is made up with the same glue as marine ply but it may have voids in the internal plies.
Second get proper brass or stainless steel pins for fastenings. Many brass srcrews are just plated steel which isn't really what you want.
1. Check whether the damaged section goes under any floor stiffeners - try to avoid damaging the stiffener as it will help support the repair. Check for other areas that will act as a support.
2. Cut out the damaged section leaving neat straight edges. Avoid damaging any of the interior sections of the boat.
It might be useful to put a chamfer on that you mirror in the patch. It would be a good idea to extend the cut out to some support e.g. keel, chine, or bouyancy tank edge, but is not really worth doing if there is only a small patch.
3. Make a template of the patch needed. Make sure that it is big enough to allow for any chamfer.
4. Check thickness of hull material - I would expect 6mm _marine_ ply and get a piece big enough.
5. Cut the patch to shape and check fit. - the closer it fits the better. trim until you get a smooth fit on the outside of the hull.
6. Glue patch in place - pin or screw through to any firm supports. I would suggest using a foaming polyurathane adhesive here as it will fill small gaps in the patch.
Check afterwards the glue has cured that there are no pin or screw points stiick out and trim / file them off.
7. Use fibreglass tape inside and outside round the patch. Either a polyester or epoxy resin will work. Epoxy is better, but is more expensive.
8. Paint and varnish.
9. Sell Streaker.
N.B. If you have arranged the patch so the edges are under supports (keel, stiffeners, bouancy tank edges) then so much the better other wise you may need to cut a strip to fit over the join inside the boat. Screw or pin to hold in place while the glue cures.
Isn't a re-hull a different boat?
Emotional attachment sounds like me and 568
Good Luck.
dan
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Post by paultp on Jul 22, 2010 18:14:38 GMT
Dan, thanks for your advice, much appreciated.
I have, however, bottled out of cutting holes in the hull and took it in to a place in Huddersfield yesterday to be repaired by someone who knows what they are doing.
Hopefully it might be back to me before the end of the Wednesday night series of pursuits as nearly every Wednesday this season has had next to no wind.
Keeping the Streaker though as I'm really enjoying sailing it, find it easier to handle in a blow than the moth.
More soon.
Cheers Paul
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Post by paultp on Jul 23, 2010 13:48:04 GMT
Good news!
The chap in Huddersfield phoned and said that though the ply had split there isn't any rot, so he reckons he can repair it without cutting a large piece out of the hull. Also it is only going to cost about half what I thought and I should get it back by the end of next week.
Hurrah!
Billy two boats
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Post by paultp on Aug 2, 2010 9:04:43 GMT
I picked the boat up on Friday, rerigged it and sailed it on Saturday. Everything seems OK.
So, to recap from my original list:
1. Change from transom to centre main.
Completed, much more preferable to Transom rigged. My streaker is also rigged in the same way (newly adopted by the streaker association) so my tacking has been improving all season.
2. Move the toe straps to a better position so that a) they don't get in the way and b) I don't feel I am falling out of the boat even when I use them.
Completed, though they still feel a bit high. As I'm only going to use the moth on Wednesday evenings they shouldn't get much use.
3. Replace the rudder and stock - I am now the proud owner of a new, unfinished "Goffo" tilting rudder and stock.
Finally done this, fitted new transom fittings and got a decent bolt and wing nut, all epoxied and varnished. Only control is a down haul at the moment. Boat feels more responsive and also seems to go faster though this might be optimism. Might yet need a longer tiller extension.
4. Check and adjust the mast rake.
I lengthened the spreaders and fitted decent shroud adjusters. I might experiment more next year.
5. Reduce the size of the centreboard.
Chickened out of this, the boat seems to go well enough. Sanded, repainted and polished it instead.
6. Fit lowers
Completed and the object of much scrutiny last time I sailed it in a race.
7. Lose 2 more stone by April next year - ongoing project. Sell any brewery shares you hold.
I'm now down to 14 st 10 lbs and am dropping about 2 lbs a week. I was stuck at 15 st for ages, looked thinner but weighed the same. So not on target but almost 2 stone lighter than at the start of last season. Another stone and a half by next season hopefully.
I've also replaced the sailcloth slot gasket, that was held in place by metal battens, with a glue on mylar job.
I repaired various knocks, and soft areas over the winter which were the legacy of 8 years abandonment, repainted the hull and gave the decks a varnish.
I refurbished the outhaul system whilst I had the boom at home. I'm going to finish it off with a gizmo I have on my streaker for tensioning it, will post a photo up when Its done.
Hopefully the hull repair will prove to be solid, I'm planning to sail 784 on Wednesday in a pursuit. Fingers crossed for very little wind.
So, all in all I reckon I've finished.
I've totted up what it has cost me including buying the rudder and stock, the paint, the repair and all the various gubbins (the rudder & transom fittings were hideously expensive) - comes to just short of £600.
If I were to sell it I reckon I would be lucky to get £500 and most of the value would be in the combi trailer. I must be mad!
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Post by New Boy on Aug 2, 2010 10:35:30 GMT
Hi Paul You have been a busy Boy. It has been really interesting reading about your project. It will soon be winter so maybe it's time to get the next project ready to start. It's not all about the money is it? I would never get close to getting back the money I have spent on my Moths but if you add in the amount of fun I have had from them they are more than worth it. New Boy
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Post by paultp on Aug 2, 2010 11:10:09 GMT
I haven't been that busy, it has taken almost a year to sort it all out.
I'm really pleased to finally get it back on the water, although it may only get used for the Wednesday night racing.
About half the work was improving things that I had just put up with, whilst the other half was necessary as a result of leaving it lying about, neglected, in various places (the garage of my house in London, a club in docklands, my pub car park, Thornton Stewart SC, my mother in law's potting shed!). I last sailed it regularly in 1997 I think.
You're right about the money thing, I couldn't have sold it in the state it was in and certainly couldn't have just binned it.
Worth every penny just to sail it again.
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Post by New Boy on Aug 2, 2010 16:09:10 GMT
Have fun and let us know how the Sailing goes. New Boy
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Post by paultp on Aug 4, 2010 22:14:23 GMT
Pleased to say I came 3rd out of 15 boats in this evening's pursuit. I led for most of the race but was caught by an Enterprise with some very crisp sails and a Phantom. Other boats included more enterprises, some lasers, a couple of solos, an RS 200, a streaker, a topper, etc.
Wind was about 10 mph at the start and slowly dropped which is just what I wanted.
I reckon that the combination of new rudder, mylar slot gasket, half decent paint job on hull and my improved sailing (and reduced weight) all contributed to good boat speed.
Repair seemed to hold up well although I was careful not to leap about the boat.
I reckon a new sail for next season and the wednesday night series will be mine for the taking. (insert demonic laugh)
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Post by Pie-eyed on Aug 5, 2010 6:59:22 GMT
Well done Paul, all your efforts are now coming to fruition, what a great feeling. Do you think this might lure some of the other 'big boys' into a new diet regime??
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Post by paultp on Aug 5, 2010 7:58:59 GMT
Well done Paul, all your efforts are now coming to fruition, what a great feeling. Do you think this might lure some of the other 'big boys' into a new diet regime?? Thanks. I really couldn't comment on who might benefit from losing a stone or two! But having about 2 stone less in the boat has definitely made it go faster. If you think of it as bags of sugar, to get the same weight back in the boat as I had at the start of last season I would have to put 13 bags of sugar in it. Try picking that up next time you are in Tesco! It has also had a psychological effect on the rest of the streaker fleet (most of whom weigh 11 stone or less) as I remind them that none of them can remove that amount of weight from their boats. As I move up the fleet, new sails have started appearing and at least one person is thinking about a new boat ;D I haven't actually done much dieting apart from a month in May last year (dropped the first 10 lbs). The exercise of 3 races on Wednesday and Sunday has done most of the work.
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gmc
Mothist
Posts: 77
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Post by gmc on Aug 5, 2010 11:06:20 GMT
Well done Paul, all your efforts are now coming to fruition, what a great feeling. Do you think this might lure some of the other 'big boys' into a new diet regime?? Great S*l* name " I predict a diet"I too have to lose a couple of KgsMark
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Post by paultp on Sept 8, 2010 13:30:27 GMT
Unfortunately, after 3 races Wednesday before last, in not very much wind, I heard a crack from under the boat.
The repair from the other month has gone again (although only a small crack) so 784 is now upside down in my (rented) garage.
I have removed one layer of ply from the hull over an area about 8" x 4" as it is just the top layer that keeps splitting and am about to lay some fibre matting topped with tissue onto this area and then fair it into the hull shape with epoxy filler.
Hopefully that should sort it out and stop it flexing ready for next season.
It was still going well despite the damage, but the roll tacking enterprises had overtaken me.
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Post by paultp on Sept 9, 2010 15:13:38 GMT
I removed a layer of ply on Tuesday and left it to dry yesterday as some bits felt a touch soggy. Went back today and it all looked and felt dry so I squared off the cut out area (which is actually 30cm x 12 cm !). After sanding round the edges I wetted it with copious amounts of epoxy resin then applied a pre-cut piece of fibre matting pre-soaked in epoxy. I rolled this (with a wallpaper edge roller) to remove air pockets and then topped the whole bodge with a piece of fine tissue fibre matting. This evidently gives a reasonably smooth service. I have attached before and after photos to amuse the boat builders amongst you. The dark manx logo shaped bit on the left is the rock hard epoxy from the previous repair. I'm going to leave it a couple of days and then fair it into the hull with some micro balloon filler before painting it next week (hopefully). Attachments:
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